#theNACtheNAZIS #1999 #theFOLLOWup #AUSTRALIAaskedTOO #WEtheFLOCKstandANDknock #hmmm That aintnowhitepaper there. Remember, folks, it’s only #DEFAMATION when it #AINT.true

A Whole Lotta Willie McCoy’s Comin’ To Get Their Money Back #thatsAfactJAC And The Bowery Might Be Gettin’ A Few More #BUMS #Chicago.STYLE #NY.style #MD.menacersstyle #ALLoverUS

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/nacboard/viewtopic.php?t=4282

I still have not received the financial information from District Apostle Kolb that I requested several times. Did NAKI lie (via Peter Johanning, who wrote the following on behalf of NAKI) when the following official response was made, or is Kolb just giving me the finger:
Mail & Guardian, March 19 – 25, 1999 – Page 9
New Apostolic Church – Official Response
The reason for this article is that The New Apostolic Church International had to respond to an article printed by Stephen Langtry in the Mail & Guardian according to “his” findings regarding The New Apostolic Church between the periods: 1889 – 1991.

With reference to the article in the Mail & Guardian on 12 February{1999} New Apostolic Church’s Nazi links, in which various allegations were made against the church. We find it necessary to rectify the perceptions that could have created as a result;

1. The New Apostolic Church’s position in Nazi Germany and it’s Relationship to Totalitarian Regimes

Our church has been accused of working too closely with the government of Nazi Germany and to this day is sometimes considered too nave in it’s dealings with totalitarian regimes.

Our church and we as it’s members in the various countries with the various political systems are an intergral part of the societies we live in.

We are not unaffected by the events that go on around us. Thus the conduct of the individual member as well as the church as a whole will always be subject to critical scrutiny, especially from the historical perspective of future generations who know more than those directly affected at the time.

In Nazi Germany, our members did not conduct themselves any differently to anyone else. Our church came under the same government restrictions as many other institutions. For example, our church literature had to contain certain articles required by state. It cannot be denied that our church administration did indeed make concessions to the National Socialist government but these measures were necessary to ensure that our church was not closed down, as has been documented and confirmed by those living at the time.

Our church was classified, particularly by the Gestapo, as an enemy of the state. In 1933 a number of congregations were shut down. They were allowed to reopen shortly thereafter, but the church was constantly overshadowed by the threat of a general ban.

The church administration did everything they possibly could to continue with our church’s mission, namely to proclaim the Gospel. Various papers have been produced that allegedly prove the church conducted itself in a nave or even subservient fashion.

When we deal with this subject, let us not forget that the church administration and individual members did many things in those difficult times to avert disaster. By maintaining its independence, the church made it possible for our members to conduct their lives according to Christian values despite the influence of a totalitarian government.

We do not deny that today, with the benefit of time and hindsight, some of the wording and explanation sound strange to us. It is emphasized, however, that in order to examine this issue objectively, the political and social climate of this time must be taken into account. It would be unfair to judge the church and it’s members based on our current knowledge and values.

As to our church’s stance today, please refer to the tenth article of the Creed. It was changed a few years ago to reflect the experience we gained over time, and now reads that we only pledge our obedience to worldly authorities insofar as it is not in violation of God’s commandments. (This change was not aimed at the South African situation rather at the global state of affairs).

All this is taken into consideration nowadays when church has dealings with totalitarian governments. Those who regard our church’s cautious approach in such cases as opportunistic or ingratiating obviously have no idea how difficult it is to proclaim God’s word in such countries.

2. Secrecy About Finances – The Wealth of the Church

Another accusation made against the church is that all members have to offer ten percent of their income. Thus the church has great wealth but does not contribute anything to social programs. The church is also accused of being secretive about its financial dealings.

It is an integral pat of our faith that the tenth should be offered, as is indicated in Malachi 3:10. However, there is never any pressure to do so.
Offering is a voluntary matter between ourselves and God. There is no record of what anyone offers, in fact, our system of offering is deliberately set up so that no one can monitor the offering of an individual. And we ourselves know best how we give our offering, freely, willingly, out of love and gratitude to the Lord.

Aside from anything else, we have experienced the effects of offering and blessing in many ways, many times. That is also the reason why the desire to offer is so great in our church. Thanks to this faithful attitude towards offering it is possible for us to cover all the expenses of the church without asking any government or state for help.

The way the offerings are spent is no secret: Most of the church’s income flows back into the congregations to support church building programs, church maintenance, and the rental fees for property the church uses but does not own. A considerable amount of money is spent on missionary work.
In addition, humanitarian aid is provided in poorer countries and in areas affected by natural disasters, disease, etc. There is an annual report in our magazine that devotes special attention to the uses of the Thanksgiving offering. The so-called wealth of the church is mainly in real estate.
These properties, however, are used almost exclusively as church and administrative buildings and are therefore restricted in their use because they are needed for the activities of the various congregations. Finally, the income and expenditures of our church are audited by independent accounting firms. Our church’s money is spent where it is most needed and can do the most good. Why is the church’s contribution to social programs so limited?

On the one hand, the primary mission of our church is to proclaim the Gospel and provide pastoral care. On the other hand, our finances are not as great as some would seem to think, and do not permit extensive contributions to social programs. Remember that our church has only been in existence for 130 years and started from very humble and modest beginnings.

3. Salaries of church officials

Salaries of full-time ministers are controlled by the international office of the church which in turn utilises the services of an independent management consulting bureau, namely HAY Remuneration System, to determine salaries of its ministers. Currently, salaries paid to these ministers are in-line with salaries paid to organisations such as the Red Cross, other church groups and non-profit organisations. It is audited every two years by the international office.

4. The church’s stance regarding the apartheid era

Although the church as all other institutions were affected by the apartheid law, the leadership structure of the church consisted of all races. As a natural consequence of the group areas act, congregations developed within the boundaries of the group areas. However, meetings for office bearers and leaders on all levels were held on a together basis for all races. Mass services to which members of all races were invited often took place and within the church the members felt as one people.

In hindsight it is always possible to evaluate the past decisions and actions of the leadership of an institution and to conclude that they reflect some mistakes. The New Apostolic Church is in this regard not untypical.

5. Obedience of Faith

According to the article in the Mail and Guardian our members are accused of displaying a slavish obedience to the leadership.

This is not in line with our teaching and no church could survive in this modern world if this was expected of its members. At the same time however, if the members of the New Apostolic Church display a high degree of faith which in turn results in obedience of faith, this can be regarded as a compliment to the church.

Our members enjoy freedom of choice and we have never prescribed to them who to vote for or for that matter whether they should vote at all.

It is of significant note that our members come from all levels of the communities in the countries where our church is active.

They include of the poorest to the affluent as well as illiterate to the highly educated and professional samples of these communities. These members worship of their own free will and are motivated by the prospect of the divine promises.

Conclusion

To conclude: The vague and generalized accusations made against our church are not justified.

Of course there have been times when ministers and members of our church have made mistakes in the past, and we will probably make mistakes again in the future. That is unavoidable.

Aside from that, however, let us not forget how much comfort, blessing and help many hundreds of thousands of contented children of God in our church have received.

We are very sorry if any of our members have been offended or suffered inner turmoil due to a misunderstanding or bad judgement on anyone’s part.
However, these are isolated incidents, and to condemn the whole church for them is ridiculous. Anyone who feels they have not been treated properly can speak personally to the appropriate ministers in an open and objective fashion. If anyone should approach us with these allegations, we can invite them to come and see for themselves first-hand.

Our services and other activities are open and accessible to all. We will probably be subjected to more attacks like this. The church will continue to respond in the media as long as fairness and impartiality are guaranteed. It is not our place, however, to lose our temper with anyone, not even with those who accuse us. It is much better if we respond to objections and accusations calmly.

Whatever happens, we can be sure of one thing: the Lord has watched over his work thus far, and will continue to do so in the future!

Acknowledgements:

New Apostolic Church – International. Peter JohanningQuoteLikeDislikeShareFinch650Registered User

Dec 27, 2009#2” … We will probably be subjected to more attacks like this”.

Members ask questions. These questions do not get answered because members are not supposed to ask questions. When the NAC is up against it and have no alternative but to answer the questions, it calls it an “attack”. It’s not an attack. It’s just simple questions. šŸ™‚QuoteShareDoubtfire19Registered User

Dec 27, 2009#3Peter can you please tell me then, if anyone can have access to the Fiancial Statements for the Annual Years returns, so we can see the following:-

1. How much went on Rental.
2. How much went on Wages within the Office and to who, Apostles, any of their Families etc.
3. Travelling expenses for Ministers only, this would also include Hotel Accommodation and Food.
4. Trevelling expenses for ALL Ministers Wives, this would also include Hotel Accommodation and Food.
5. Car Expenses, what proportion does the Church give or do they buy the Cars.
6. How much was spent on Church Maintainance say in each State of Australia.
7. How much is received in Offerings, against what is spent.
8. How much goes to the Missionary States.

I and many others would LOVE to have a look at these financials especially the Balance Sheets of Australia and I believe if this is allowable and Peter as you say the Offerings cover all the Expenses needed so you do not have to ask the Government of the Countries to help, so please tell me Peter if you have got nothing to hide why has not every State got these financial Sheets, so any Bretheran can look at them and have the above answers answered.
We have been told we are not a Secret Society, so WHY so many questions on the Fiances of THE CHURCH????????????

—– Forwarded Message —–From: Erin Cook <erin_cook@ymail.com>To: info@stephenlangtry.com <info@stephenlangtry.com>Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2022, 08:40:59 AM ESTSubject: New Apostolic Church is Goin’ Down
Hi Mr. Langtry,
I am former contributing NAC organist (lifelong member) and Kolb, Freund, you know all of them – LIED to my mother about #theNAC’s nefarious dealings.  
My father passed 2019, and I have a mentally retarded twin sister, who #theNAC has divided from me, as well as my elderly mother, via their lies.
They TOOK ME TO COURT for a peace order this week!  I’ve been on them since 2020 when I saw the Fendt’s Follies ‘Georgy Floydy’ letter – all of this is referenced on my site:
apostlegate.org ā€“ #READUP.SMARTENUP

When I pushed for identity of Schneider’s father, I was met with lies and silence; met with all BUT ministerial love and compassion ,and treated as a corporate problem and a court jester.  So, now they’ve got one of each.  Their #preacher.privilege BONUS PACKAGE.  They gave me the #friendsANDfamily deal,  And I’m gettin’ a refund.

%d bloggers like this: